میری 23 اگست کی تحریر سے کچھ سوالات نے جنم لیا ہے ۔ میں نے سوچا کہ جواب پوسٹ میں دیا جائے تاکہ سب اپنی رائے کا اظہار کر سکیں ۔متذکّرہ سوالنامہ آٹھویں نویں اور دسویں جماعت کے طلباء و طالبات کو ان سکولوں میں دیا گیا تھا جنہوں نے آغا خان بورڈ سے الحاق کیا تھا یا اس کے لئے درخواست دی تھی ۔ بیکن ہاؤس جس کی ایڈمنسٹریٹر یا مینجنگ ڈائریکٹر خورشید محمود قصوری کی بیگم ہیں پیش پیش تھا ۔ یہ اس سال کے شروع کا واقع ہے ۔ ایک صاحب نے مجھے سوالنامے کی جھلک دکھائی تھی ۔ میں ان دنوں کافی بیمار تھا اس لئے کچھ لکھنا ممکن نہ ہوا ۔ سب سوال مجھے یاد نہیں مگر اتنا یاد ہے کہ دادا ہونے کے باوجود مجھے یہ سوال شرمناک محسوس ہوئے
۔ایک سادہ سوال جو یاد پڑتا ہے اس طرح تھا ۔ کیا آپ کا کسی سے جنسی تعلق قائم ہوا ہے ۔ کتنا عرصہ رہا اور اس کے بعد آپ نے کیا محسوس کیا ؟
سعادت حسن منٹو کی متذکّرہ کتاب کی وجہ سے منٹو پر مقدمہ چلا تھا اور قید ہوئی تھی ۔ سنا تھا کہ منٹو نے عدالت میں کہا تھا کہ میں حقیقت بیان کرتا ہوں ۔گندگی کے ڈھیر پر چادر پڑی ہوتی ہے میں صرف اسے اٹھا دیتا ہوں ۔ جج نے کہا تھا جو کچھ آپ اپنی بیوي کے ساتھ کرتے ہیں کیا اس پر سے بھی آپ چادر اٹھا دیتے ہیں تا کہ آپ کے بچوں کو اپنی پیدائش کی حقیقت معلوم ہو جائے ؟ اس کے بعد منٹو کچھ نہ بولا ۔ یہ کتاب ممنموع قرار دی گئی تھی ۔ ذوالفقارعلی بھٹو کے زمانہ میں پابندی اٹھائی گئی تھی مگر ضیاء الحق کے زمانہ میں پھر پابندی لگ گئی تھی ۔ پرویز مشرف کے کمال سے کمسن بچوں کے کورس کا حصہ بن گئی تھی مگر نکالنی پڑی ۔ تیس سال قبل کسی نے اس کتاب کے چند صفحے بطور نمونہ مجھے پڑھائے تھے ۔ ان صفحوں میں ایک مفروضہ زنا کی پوری تفصیل تھی ۔
بریگیڈیئر قاضی نے لفظ پورنو استعمال کیا ہے ۔ میں تو نفسانی شہوت پیدا کرنے والی کہانیاں کہوں گا ۔ میرا خیال ہے کہ پورنوگرافی بھی اسی کا انگریزی ترجمہ ہے ۔ ایک پاکستانی ڈکشنری میں پورنوگرافی کا ترجمہ فحش نگاری ہے ۔ ملاحظہ ہو پورنوگرافی کا ترجمہ انگریزی ميں ۔
(1) The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement. (2) Material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
اصل مسئلہ تو یہ ہے کہ آٹھویں نویں اور دسویں جماعت کے طلباء و طالبات سے عریاں جنسی سوالات پوچھنے کی کیا ضرورت تھی ؟ نویں دسویں کے طلباء و طالبات کو نفسانی شہوت پیدا کرنے والی کہانیاں پڑھا کر تعلیم کا معیار کیسے بلند ہو گا ؟ اور اس سب کے پیچھے اصل مقصد کیا ہے ؟ کیا امریکہ یا برطانیہ جہاں سیکس مادر پدر آزاد ہے میں دسویں یا بارہویں کے کورس میں نفسانی شہوت پیدا کرنے والی کہانیاں شامل ہیں ؟
ہم کسی ہوٹل میں صرف ایک وقت کا کھانا کھانے جائیں تو بھی پہلے پرکھ لیتے ہیں کہ وہاں کیسے لوگ ہوں گے اور ہمیں کیسا کھانا ملے گا مگر بڑے افسوس سے کہنا پڑتا ہے کہ ہم اپنے بچوں کا مستقبل صرف بڑا نام یا امارت دیکھ کر غلط لوگوں کے سپرد کر دیتے ہیں ۔ اپنے بچوں کو آغاخان بورڈ کے سپرد کرنے سے پہلے یہ تو معلوم کر لینا چاہیئے کہ آغاخان کیا تھے اور اتنے امیر اور ہزہائینس کیسے بنے اور اب ان کے کیا مشاغل ہیں ۔ کلک کیجئے پہلی قسط کے لئے یہاں اور دوسری قسط کے لئے یہاں ۔
مختصر یہ کہ اسماعیلیوں سے غدّاری اور انگریزوں کی خدمت کے عوض ایک دن میں امیر و کبیر بن گئے تھے اور ہزہائینس بھی ۔
I apologize for commenting in English but I can’t express these things clearly and briefly in Urdu alone and a mix of Urdu and English causes odd directional problems here.
About the questionnaire: It seems like a regular sex survey trying to find out the prevalence of sexual activity among teens. Without such surveys, how can social scientists get an idea of different social trends and problems? Now, my comment is about the general idea of such surveys. I don’t know much about this specific instance.
About Manto: I agree that Manto’s story is not appropriate to be taught at middle or high school level. However, it is most definitely not pornographic or erotic. If anything, it turns the reader away from sex.
اگر آپ کو یاد ہو تو یہ سوالات بھی تھے اس سوال نامے میں
آپ ایڈز سے کس طرح بچ سکتے ہیں؟ کیا آپ چاہتے ہیں کی آپ کی کوئی گرل یا بوائے فرینڈ ہو؟
کیا آپ سمججتے ہیں کہ اسلام کے قوانین بھی تبدیلی کی ضرورت ہے؟؟؟؟
اور اس طرح کے چند دیگر اور ان سوالات کے جوابات کے سلسلے میں تین سے چار آپشن دیئے تھے جب میں سے کوئی ایک پسند کرنا تھا جیسے اوپر دیج پہلے سوال میں یہ آپشن تھے
پہلا؛ جھڑی بوٹیوں کے استعمال سے
دوسرا؛ محدود جسسی تعلقات رکھ کر
تیسرا؛ حفاظتی تدابیر پر عمل کر کے
چوتھا یاد نہیں آ ریا مجھے ابھی۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
Zakaria
To ask such questions from lower teen-agers may be alright for America where sex is taught to 6 & 7 year olds. I do not know how better those children become with sex education, but what I know of the American children is that they start having sex at the age of 9 years (or may be earlier) and even have intercourse, some resulting in abortion or birth in rest rooms.
The type of society we have, such surveys will never produce correct information and this is partly true for America also.
I very clearly know the problems solved by the birth control assistance provided by UN. It only increased illegitimate sex relation among people. In 1986 at Cabinet Division, senior officers were made an audience to two top experts of UN on family planning (Americans). I agreed to attend with the condition I would be allowed to ask questions. Here are the questions and the answers:
Q.1. I have been reading in American literature since 1981 that Americans used to be proud of having biggest number of children sometimes nineteen. Then the number declined and now they have one or two. Did they use or were advised to use the birth control methods being professed by your experts in Pakistan ?
A.1. No, they were not advised to use these methods.
Q.2. What is the reason then to use such methods in Pakistan ? Should it be taken that the Western world wants to create sexual corruption in Pakistan ?
No answer. (Faces of the experts blushed)
Q.3. Is it not fact that birth rate in Europe and America automatically got controlled as a bye-product of enabling normal education at university to all because students, after having graduated, pass the age of maximum fertility, become matured enough to have a better look at the family affairs and, by joining service and other social activities, sleeping with the spouse doesn’t remain the only enjoyment for them ?
A.3. You are right.
Q.4. Your organization has already wasted millions of Rupees on the so-called birth-control-system without any positive result. Why doesn’t your organization spend on normal education in our country so that we become more literate and you get much lesser birth rate ?
No answer.
About Manto’s stories, you may be talking of your own perception. I had seen lot many people reading Manto’s stories just for virtual sex enjoyment. In any case, what good inclusion of these in Matric syllabus will do or what bad will happen if these are not included ? Nowhere on glob such stories are part of courses of study then why in Pakistan ?
Sorry for wrong typing the date in Q.1. It should be:
Q.1. I have been reading in American literature since 1951
شعیب صفدر صاحب
آپ نے ٹھیک لکھا ہے مندرجہ ذیل سوالات بھی تھے اور ان کے لئے دیئے ہوئے تین یا چار آپشن پر ٹک کرنا تھا اور اپنی طرف سے کچھ نہیں لکھنا تھا ۔ کل آٹھ یا دس سوالات تھے ۔ میں ان دنوں کراچی میں تھا اور کمر اور ٹانگ میں شدید درد تھا ۔ اگر اپنے گھر اسلام آباد میں ہوتا تو میں باوجود اتنی تکلیف کے سوالات کمپیوٹر میں محفوظ کر لیتا ۔
کوشش کیجئے کہ مزید سوالات کا پتہ چل جائے ۔ میں مشکور ہوں گا ۔
آپ ایڈز سے کس طرح بچ سکتے ہیں ؟
پہلا ۔ جھڑی بوٹیوں کے استعمال سے
دوسرا ۔ محدود جنسی تعلقات رکھ کر
تیسرا ۔ حفاظتی تدابیر پر عمل کر کے
کیا آپ چاہتے ہیں کی آپ کی کوئی گرل یا بوائے فرینڈ ہو ؟
کیا آپ سمججتے ہیں کہ اسلام کے قوانین بھی تبدیلی کی ضرورت ہے ؟
On Urdu Planet, I saw some heading entitled as “test post for qadeer”. I didn’t understand what’s that while it was not on your blog. What’s the matter?
Naw-e-Waqat is run by Jamat-e-Islami. I do not believe in anything they say or write on simple fact that when I was a student at University of Karachi in 1985-1990, their student wing (Jamiat) use to terrorize girls. The main purpose of those senseless guys was to scare us away from education. They spray bleach through syringes, beat guys who have any kind of friendship with girls, call girls homes and defame them and you got the picture. Some of the girl’s parents got scared and stopped them from attending university. Thank goodness my parents have more sense. This is the gift which we got from Zia-ul-Haq in the name of Islam. He gave us a breed of uneducated men who think them selves as morality police. May be they are good to fight Infidels. However it should be done by organized Army. What can you say about a dictator who cares about nothing but his post? The point of this elaboration just to give an idea how their minds work. Just around sexual relationship. We do not have women running in skimpy clothes and still our men have dirty thoughts. They harass women in bazaars verbally and physically. The only reason I think of is they are sexually oppressed.
Now I am coming to the point – I do not see anything wrong in this question. Zakaria is right it’s a sex survey. Sex between consenting adults is not a bad thing. I think you should be worried about the sexual abuses which happen in madras, homes and elsewhere. I have evidence through my maid servants where unwilling sexual relations at very young age are not uncommon.
I am little confuse – At one point you were attacking birth control clinics and when someone trying to educate Young Adults about sex you are opposing it. The way you are talking about Manto’s case, think me wondering about the credibility of the Judge. Personal attacks do not show the professionalism. If that Manto’s article makes someone horny, then they must be sexually deviated. They need help, I forgot we do not talk about such things as sex is wrong even between husband and wife.
We need a Teacher’s education colleges at every level. The problem is who is going to run it. We are not educating our kids since 1980.
May I ask why do you write in Urdu only? Is that there are not many urdu readers on the world, so you’ll get less oppositon
Ms Naila
Let it be clear that I am neither in Jamait-i-Islami nor I am pro-Jamait-i-Islami.
Nawa-i-Waqat is NOT run by Jamat-i-Islami. Thus, your premise of “not to believe in anything they say or write” is flawed. I do not like to comment on your perception of behaviour of a students organization (IJT) because it was a matter between you and they while I was no where near. IJT was there even 50 years back while Zia took over 28 years back, then how Zia gave you that gift ? If you talk of teasing of females by males, it is more and flagrant by those who oppose IJT and Islamic institutions.
You say, “Sex between consenting adults is not a bad thing.” So you can go ahead with it. My effort is only to save those from ills who wish to stay obedient to God and not lust.
You say, “I do not see anything wrong in this question. Zakaria is right it’s a sex survey.”
Mind madam, these questions were asked from minors and not adults. I am practically more worried about misdoings at madrassas, homes, etc. If your wish of sex is granted, there will be scenes of open sex in every school, Madrassa, home and office.
Having gone through your comment, I feel that, not the judge but you need psychological counseling.
Ms Erum
I presume you wanted to say teachers training college. Yes, we do need those. These institutions existed earlier but were abolished by Z A Bhutto government. No problem of running them. Senior teachers with good record can do it. Some can be sent abroad to appropriate institutions to learn and on return teach others. Children are not being educated since 1974 when educational institutions were nationalised and education system was changed to the detriment by so-called Quaid-e-Awam in 1974 and not 1980 as you wrote.
Madam I am not writing for America or Briton as we normally do. I am writing for my Pakistani brethren and they all know Urdu which is also our National language.
For your information, my first blog (http://hypocrisythyname.blogspot.com/) was in English. I wrote English there. Go through the said blog starting from September 09, 2004 if you want to be sure. On May 05, 2005, I started this Urdu blog. Later, readers started proposing that I should write Urdu also in my earlier blog. So I did but I do, sometimes, write in English. As regards opposition, al-hamdu-lillah, I am not scared by it. I practically believe in
جابر حاکم کے سامنے کلمہء حق کہنا جہاد ہے
If you want to confirm it, reach a person who knows me well.
Dad:
America where sex is taught to 6 & 7 year olds.
I don’t think that is correct. Sex ed is probably taught in middle school, not elementary school.
what I know of the American children is that they start having sex at the age of 9 years (or may be earlier) and even have intercourse, some resulting in abortion or birth in rest rooms.
That characterization is very unfair. It is like someone saying that all women are gang raped in Pakistan like Mukhtar Mai.
The type of society we have, such surveys will never produce correct information and this is partly true for America also.
Social scientists have studied a lot on this issue and have come up with ways to design and administer surveys such that they result in useful information.
About the sex survey: Details of that survey could clarify matters. Who commissioned the survey? Who designed it? Who administered it? Who was it administered to? Only high school students or other groups as well? What were the contents of the survey? What was the survey going to be used for? A properly designed survey about sexual attitudes I would understand (even support). However, considering this is Pakistan we are talking about, there is a good chance there were big mess-ups in the process.
birth control … only increased illegitimate sex relation
You sound a lot like some conservatives here in the US.
About birth rates, birth control and education: I agree that there are a lot of factors like education, late marriage, jobs for women, etc. which affect the birth rate. However, birth control is also a factor. After all, how else do these couples space the birth of their children?
I had seen lot many people reading Manto’s stories just for virtual sex enjoyment.
I can believe that. But you would be surprised what kind of perverts exist in this world. There is nothing which someone does not find erotic. We can’t ban everything. So the question turns on reasonable behavior. It is my contention that no reasonable person would consider Manto’s story to be pornographic.
what good inclusion of these in Matric syllabus will do or what bad will happen if these are not included ?
I have already stated that Matric students are too immature for studying that. It could be included at the university level but not in high school.
Zakaria
I was trying to be safe. It is done even at play school. Please do not ask for proof because I do not like to disclose it.
I didn’t say every American child has sex relations. So your remark is uncalled for.
Social scientists may have studied a lot and may have come up with excellent ways but either that doesn’t work in our environment or they purposely try bad methods here.
I don’t know who designed the survey. It was administered by Agha Khan Board. Questions were totally not suited to teen-agers, especially 8th to 10th class.
I may be a conservative or even orthodox but not American.
I am in favour of birth control guided by proper education and training. The first step has to be education for all up to university level. You should remember that I do not manufacture talks. My statement is always based on practical facts. In early 1970s, the UN family planning experts employed young unmarried graduates and, after a few days lecturing, sent them to rural areas with packets of condoms for cheap sale and sometime free distribution. Is that what American experts do in America.
You agree that Matric students are too immature for studying Mato’s stories. So, my point is proved.
I think several others have commented on the specifics of the points you have made in your original post, so I will abstain from getting into that discussion. However, there is another important angle to this whole debate which you and others must also consider.
I am referring to the fact, that you and others are able to post a message with this kind of content and get open and reasonable responses from your fellow Pakistanis. This is an indication that the particular Pakistani/ Islamic society which you are talking about has also fundamentally changed due to the impact of globalization and technology. What is more, it has changed for everyone equally regardless of age. In my opinion the surveys such as the one you mention are simply the breaking of another such taboo. Before arguing that high school students are too young or immature for such questions, we must also understand that students of the same age 25 years ago were very different from today. It is nothing but self-deception to pretend that teenagers in our society do not know anything about sex. I will be seriously concerned and actually disappointed about their mental abilities if they respond by saying that they are unaware of such issues.
Second and more importantly banning of books is indicative of the general direction in which we as a people are headed. Manto and others who wrote in that vain were critics of what we as a society refused to acknowledge. It is the absence of people like him in our society which has brought us to the point in history where we are currently at. I fail to find any justification for banning a book and especially Manto’s. I think it is an admission that we as a people prefer to kill the book which talks about the things which plague our society rather than killing the plague. If anything we should be grateful to Manto and actually reevaluate all the decisions made by this highly partial judge.
Technological advances have made the world a much smaller place today, its about time that we realize its impact on our social and everyday life. As a nation we have traditionally considered social sciences and humanities a lesser specialization for our children. Our resistance to surveys such as this one, and our understanding of our society as frozen in time and space is a proof of the damage that this approach towards social sciences has done. I think that some survey is better than no survey because it generates the data we need to understand the social trends in our society. I would have been much more satisfied if people on this thread talked about the appropriate formulation of questions in a survey, instead of getting into a “survey/ no survey” debate. As a social scientist there is simply no doubt in my mind about the usefulness and absolute necessity of such surveys. Thanks
سوشل سائنٹسٹ صاحب
توجہ دلانے کا شکریہ ۔ آپ نے گلوبلائیزیشن اور ٹیکنالوجی کے اثر تبدیلی کا ذکر کیا ہے تو محترم ۔ سالہا سال سے تعلیمی ترقّی کے فقدان کے باعث اثر یہ ہوا ہے لوگ بنیان پہننے اور انگریزی بولنے لگے ہیں خواہ موقع محل کچھ ہو اور انگریزی بھی غلط ہو ۔
اگر کسی جگہ ایک عمارت تعمیر کرنا ہو تو پہلے وہاں کی زمین ہموار کرتے ہیں ۔ اگر سائنسدان ہوں تو سب سے پہلے سائل بیئرنگ کپیسیٹی ناپتے ہیں اور اگر نتیجہ صحیح نکلے تو پھر زمین ہموار کرتے ہیں ۔ پھر زمین کھود کر زمین کے اندر سے بنیادیں اُٹھاتے ہیں ۔ پھر اُسکے اُوپر عمارت تعمیر ہوتی ہے جس میں کھڑکیاں بھی لگائی جاتی ہیں اور دروازے بھی ۔ پھر رنگ روغن کے بعد جا کے عمارت تیار ہوتی ہے ۔
اکر فصل اُگانا مقصود ہو تو پہلے زمین کی صحت کی پڑتال کی جاتی ہے زمین قابلِ کاشت نکلے پھر ہل چلایا جاتا ہے پھر چھانٹ پھٹک کر کے بیج ڈال کر اُسے سراب کیا جاتا ہے ۔ پھر فصل اُگنے کے دوران اُسکی حفاظت کی جاتی ۔ تب کہیں اچھی فصل حاصل ہوتی ہے ۔
میں واضح کر دوں کہ میں سروے کا مخالف نہیں لیکن ہر چیز ڈھنگ سے ہونا چاہیئے ۔ میرا خیال ہے آپ میرا مطلب سمجھ گئے ہوں گے ۔
جہاں تک منٹو کی عریاں کتاب کا تعلق ہے ۔ میں نے چیک کر کے لکھا تھا کہ دنیا میں کہیں بھی ایسی کتاب سکول یا کالج کے کورس کا حصہ نہیں ۔